At 01:37 PM 11/5/98 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi John
>
>Thanks for that
>
>I'm largely on your side you know, but your paranoia is showing through
>as I am sure i have points which are as valid as your own - I also
>suffer the same paranoia the way the world is manipulated by the
>chemical cartels.

Define "paranoia". The world _IS_ being manipulated to no small extent by
the drug and chemical cartels. Go to www.rath.nl and check out what
Dr.Matthias Rath has to say about it. He is filing a legal complaint to the
International Court of Justice. Read the book "The Crime and Punishment of
IG Farben" The startling account of the unholy alliance between Adolf
Hitler and Germany's great chemical combine by Joseph Borkin ISBN
0-02-904630-0 Its _STILL_ running Germany, and would LIKE to run the world!
Another good book to read, which was published in England, is "Dirty
Medicine" Science, Big Business, and the Assault on Natural Health Care, by
Martin J. Walker, Slingshot Publications 1993 ISBN 0-9519646 0-7
 

>You've answered much of my question in saying you enlist the
>orthomolecular body, but I use TCM and practice, preach and live by much
>of the Chinese wisdom as it works for me and my patients. I can see the
>benefit/risk of single supplemntation as well as the problems of
>'synthetic vitamins'.
>
>I believe we all have the right to do to our bodies what we will, but we
>also have the moral duty to ensure that what we preach to others is
>tempered with the realisation that one man's meat is another's poison.
>Many people do not have the ability to select their best
>remedy/supplement and require the input to professionals- like it or not
>there are many good, moral and decent professionals who have their own
>brand of 'what's right' in addition to your orthomolecular gurus.

Cut the crap! If you favor the sort of "system" that the Germans have,
where you can't even _TOUCH_ a bottle of vitamins or herbs unless a lab
coated GEEK behind a counter HANDS it to you, then we are in staunch
opposition. No one should HAVE to go to a damn DOCTOR to get this stuff.
Vitamins and herbs must be freely accessable to people, and if someone
CHOOSES to get lab work, and a professional opinion, or CHOOSES to go to a
TCM practitioner for an expert opinion, that option must remain as a
CHOICE, but it shouldn't be REQUIRED.

I oppose ALL forms of medical fascism, regardless of its source. I have
seen medical fascism eminate at times from some alternative practitioners
who have taken restrictive stances which have been every bit as offensive
to me as that taken by mainstream physicians. When you strip away the
veneer of pretentious rhetoric, it all comes down to the "bottom line" to
green whip out, aka "money", ya know, those nefarious zinc oxide deposits
residing on computer tape inside the vault of the bank where you stash your
money if you have faith in the system------ (which I DON'T!)

John, I am unwilling to allow red tape of ANY KIND to interfere with my
access to vitamins, minerals, amino acids, trace elements, herbs, cocaine,
heroin, marijuana, LSD, uppers, downers, coffee, strawberry jam, vanilla
ice cream, hamburgers, or ANY OTHER substance, which I, as a sovereign
human being, answerable ONLY to God, chose to ingest, into _MY_ body! My
body is MINE, not yours, and not ANY OTHER @#$#@$#$#@#$# _Doctors!_ (Phew!
I feel _MUCH_ better now! ;-> I'll calm down in a minute!)

I've spent a lot of time in Canada, and feel truly sorry for people in
Canada, Australia, and other places which are being ground under the heal
of pharmaceutical tyranny. Give me liberty, or give me DEATH! Contrary to
what some people seem to think, the American revolution has _NOT_
degenerated into a Fat Lady Drivin' a Cadillac! We're _MORE_ than prepared
to kill the regulators down here if need be, and we're all armed to the
teeth! The biggest problem in the UK is that you guys let the globalists
strip you of your guns! That leaves you out there standing naked before
their tyrannical advances to make us all slaves on their global corporate
plantation!
 

>Greed
>affects everyone, i like to think that I live by a moral code that makes
>me independent in thought, compassionate and try to do what my patients
>wish for me to do for them at least cost - I do not like your comment on
>what I am trying to make from others' suffering- that's far from the
>truth. I also fight the establishment in my own way - you're not the
>only crusader around; each to his own.
>
>Good luck with that fight.
>
>Cheers
>
>John

John- I haven't met a doctor yet who liked hearing what I have to say when
I accuse them of wanting to monopolize things so that we have to go through
them to get out vitamins and herbs. I am offended by the patronizing
attitude which some doctors seem to employ whereby they all too often
insult our intelligence by taking the view that they are indispensable, and
that we really shouldn't make a move without their alleged expert guidance.
I have become far more knowledgable in certain medical areas than a lot of
MDs, and frankly, they offend me. In the final analysis, you are motivated
by self interest- by your bottom line. I have met some other alternative
practitioners who are similarly afflicted, especially in Canada where some
TCM practitioners and some naturopaths have a similarly anti consumer
attitude.

This really saddens me. Alternative Practitioners and Consumers should be
able to work together against our common enemy, but alas, some of us appear
to be divided. The more alternative practitioners adopt the view that we
(the consuming public) must go through THEM to get what is rightfully OURS,
the more they play into the hands of the regulators. In Canada, many
Naturopaths have sold out to Walpole, a drug company which has their
tentacles into their trade association very deeply, and together they are
all kissing the ass of the so called "health protection branch", so I hope
you aren't doing the same thing with the MCA over in England, because if
you _ARE_ I really wish you'd stop, and join with consumers.
 
 
 
 

>whaIn message <3.0.3.32.19981103181207.00b4e398@pop3.concentric.net>,
>John Hammell <jham@iahf.com> writes
>>At 11:44 AM 11/3/98 +0000, you wrote:
>>>Hi John et al
>>>
>>>The bottom line is that the FDA and the rest of CODEX are trying to
>>>instate some kind of 'risk assessment' on behalf of 'supplements'. In
>>>itself that is wise as there are many unscrupulous 'supplement'
>>>merchandisers who are quick to sell their wares at the first sign of
>>>news that a 'supplement' may improve a condition - we have waves of eg
>>>"guarana, aloe vera, ginseng, etc. etc. is good for you" and the porr
>>>unsuspecting publuic are ever ready to buy the latest panacea.
>>
>>You should go to Matthias Rath's website at www.rath.nl and read his
>take
>>on this situation before you jump to this unwarranted conclusion. If
>you
>>are really buying in to what you are saying here, you're playing right
>into
>>the hands of the regulators, and there is a revolving door between the
>>regulators and the pharmaceutical industry which wants to eliminate
>>consumer access to high potency vitamins- to anything within the
>>therapeutic range. Anything that doesn't have an RDA they want to
>regulate
>>as a "Drug"- they want to impose HACCP GMP standards all over the
>world.
>>That constitutes gross regulatory overkill which is unfair to
>manufacturers
>>and to consumers.
>>
>
>I know that and fight against it in my own way. I also know there are
>unscrupulous 'supplementors' that's the nature of man.
>
>>>>On the other hand, supplements that are prescribed by naturopaths, or
>>>herbalists etc. ought to be safer, and could be dosed at whatever the
>>>'professional' feels is right. We need to push for such control, the use
>>>of professional prescriptions via such 'alternative well-trained'
>>>individuals, then the dose can be assessed by both current reseacrch
>>>knowledge and the professional usage rules.
>>
>>Bull. I don't see any reason to go to a naturopath or a herbalist for any
>>of the products that I've been consuming for the past 20 years. I buy from
>>reputabe companies, and don't need this sort of imposition on my time.
>>There is no reason to require prescriptions for any dietary supplement. I
>>have dominion over my body, the state and federal government can stay _OUT_
>>of my life!
>>
>That's your perogative, many would disagree.
>
>>>We certainly cannot let the current situation run away with itself, and
>>>I do appreciate the value of supplementation- I work in the field of
>>>Traditional Chinese Medicine and value all well-tried and tested input.
>>
>
>>My impression is that you are angling for a way to ramp up your business-
>>such as by writing prescriptions for herbal remedies that people shouldn't
>>have to confer with you over. Your view that the supplement industry needs
>>regulation is unfounded and anti consumer.
>>
>You're talking crap, I have no need to ramp up my business but I do have
>a conscience that alerts me to ensuring I give my patients what I
>believe is in their best interests, that's what they come to me for. I
>never advertise but rely on my good reputation and referrals from those
>satisfied persons and local medics whose patients I have restored to
>good health.  I see daily that damage 'supplements' without good advice
>does to people in addition to dangers of drugs.
>>
>>>It is also clear that 'risk assesed' values must have some scientific
>>>validity and that is where our thrust should be in addition to
>>>countering obvious flagrant abuses of public and other legal rights.
>>
>>Vitamins and minerals need no "risk assessment" but OTC and Rx drugs sure
>>do! The FDA is working hand in glove with NAS to try to ban consumer access
>>to high potency vitamins- they want to make them available only by
>>prescription. It says so right there in the so called risk assessment
>>document. Give me one reason why I should trust the scientific views of the
>>NAS regarding this issue when the people who generated the Risk Assessment
>>document are mainstream nutritionists, working in University research
>>settings, being funded by pharmaceutical grant money-- with no clinical
>>experience. These people have a serious conflict of interest. If a group of
>>people are going to make scientific risk assessments on the nutrients I
>>take, the ONLY views I consider legitimately scientific are those of
>>orthomolecular M.D.s, people such as Matthias Rath, and this is why I am
>>trying to bring people such as him to an oversight hearing. I've been
>>taking niacin in megadoses for 20 years. The 35 mg/day UL that they're
>>trying to attach to niacin is totally unscientific and doesn't fly.
>>
>Everything for peoples' health requires 'risk assessment' especially in
>the field of supplementation, that's where many health problems lay - in
>addition to the drugs industries and the dangers inherent in  odern
>medical advice. I assume you treat people with 'suppelments' or if not
>how come you're so sure of your facts where others' health is concerned?
>
>>>Keep up the good work John but if possible, try enlist the help of those
>>>with knowledge of the evaluation of suplementation via professional
>>>usage as that will help our case. To say that 'I got better from
>>>schizophrenia with supplements' though very important, is not going to
>>>convince one who requires more general evidence of efficacy for such
>>>products.
>>
>>John- You haven't been following what I've been saying very closely.I have
>>enlisted the help of Abram Hoffer, MD, PhD, editor in chief of the Journal
>>of Orthomolecular medicine, as well as his entire board and many other
>>orthomolecular physicians. They are many years ahead of their time and
>>their work has been horribly suppressed by mainstream medicine.
>>
>Orthomolecular medicine is as flawed as any of our medicines, the beauty
>is in knowing - and accepting - where those flaws are and ensuring
>patients are wise, or the practitioner has the integrity - to make sure
>harm does not come to another through those flaws.
>>
>>You should spend a few hours perusing my website in order to familiarize
>>yourself with the greed driven global pharmaceutical push to ban access to
>>vitamins and minerals within the therapeutic range. In addition to my
>>website, from the links section in my site you can get to several other
>>health freedom websites in other countries, including the PHARMAPACT site
>>in S.Africa, and the Citizens Voice for Health Rights site in Canada. In
>>your own country you should spend some time discussing these issues with
>>Linda Lazerides of Society for the Promotion of Nutritional Therapy. Grass
>>roots groups such as ours have been waging a pitched battle as NGOs against
>>the Codex stacked deck.
>>
>I read with interest most of what you write; I then have my own
>experience, knowledge and belief system to place it in context. I fight
>abuse of any system that impinges on those who ask for my help. I do not
>like monoppolies and where peoples' health is concerned I try to make
>sure I make the right decision, that's what they want me to do. I'm not
>always right but I try to be, that's the point.
>
>
>>******************************************
>>International Advocates for Health Freedom
>>2411 Monroe St. #3 Hollywood, FL 33020 USA
>>800-333-2553, overseas 954-929-2905
>>fax 954-929-0507, www.iahf.com,
>>jham@iahf.com
>>Donations Needed For Trips to DC
>>To Get FDA Oversight Hearing
>>Due to Illegal FDA Codex Comments
>>& for Trips to Europe to Assist
>>Dr.Rath in Getting Hearing at
>>International Court of Justice
>>Against the Pharmaceutical Cartel
>>*********************************
>
>--
>John Heptonstall
>
>
******************************************
International Advocates for Health Freedom
2411 Monroe St. #3 Hollywood, FL 33020 USA
800-333-2553, overseas 954-929-2905
fax 954-929-0507, www.iahf.com,
jham@iahf.com
Donations Needed For Trips to DC
To Get FDA Oversight Hearing
Due to Illegal FDA Codex Comments
& for Trips to Europe to Assist
Dr.Rath in Getting Hearing at
International Court of Justice
Against the Pharmaceutical Cartel
*********************************